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gareth
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Posts: 414
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Pro and Challenge events 29th August
Date: September 03, 2009 10:36PM
Hi Paddy,

You make it sound like everyone on the tour is a +4. Who on the Pro tour is +4? Who on the Pro tour is +3?

You said "Giving 4 racks away alternate break is madness". So let me get this straight. In the Open tour, against the weakest players(+4), you reckon you can't win 2 racks on your opponents break? Are you serious?

If you do any analysis of the players, their handicaps and your past performance against them, you should be beating them every time. There is nothing wrong with the system, and its still slanted in your favour IMHO.

But as I've said before, any good handicap system should take into account recent results. Maybe we could also add another factor: Players who miss a Pro Tour event loose another rack from their handicap smiling smiley

As for the break, if you have a situation where you have tapped tables (eurotour) or rack-your-own (ireland), and you want to have closer matches and attract grass-root players into the sport, then Alternate Break is the only option IMO. But maybe attracting players and having closer matches isn't the thrust of your argument. the finger smiley

gareth
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Posts: 414
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Pro and Challenge events 29th August
Date: September 03, 2009 10:47PM
BTW, my comment about the Pro-Tour "no-shows" wasn't aimed at any player in particular. It was aimed at all of the players who gave a personal and financial commitment to their fellow players to play (and pay) in 5 events and haven't. Its bad enough when players don't play their part and support tour events, but when people know whats required of them, agree to it, and then don't show, it doesn't help those who are trying to improve the sport here.

willie
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Posts: 144
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Pro and Challenge events 29th August
Date: September 03, 2009 11:45PM
Hey Gareth smiling smiley

You make a very good point in what you're saying about the no shows, etc, in fact, I had originaly planned to return to compete in for the 1st Pro Tour event in March, but unfortunately, another major bout of depression put that idea up in smoke.

There is something to remember though Gareth, I feel that there is a need to ask the 'no showers' why they haven't been keeping to their word, when they agreed to pay and play in specific events Tour events.

If the time isn't taken to find out why the players haven't been showing up to compete, then how is it possible to improve the tour so that the players will be happy to show up and to compete?

I just posted up a new thread a short while ago for the purpose of finding the answers to questions like that and to find out what the players would like to see being added, etc smiling smiley, (And I'm still waiting to go down and make a coffee smiling smiley lol).

The 1 thing that this forum should be used for most, is for both players and Tour Organiser and associates, to communicate better and find a way to make the tour better and more accessible to all players, who wish to compete in American Pool within Ireland smiling smiley

Willie

mark "THE BEAR" mc d
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Posts: 65
Date Registered: 26/05/2007
Re: Pro and Challenge events 29th August
Date: September 04, 2009 05:44PM
nope u wnt be seeing me there paddy im wkn that weeknd....i have yet 2 receive a rack r give away a rack in the pro tour so i cant really comment on that but i do agree that the race is a bit short for a handicap but we havent got the time 2 go race to 10 r 12....so 9 is the best answer, and i know if u wer playn any plus 4 player u wud put ur huz on it u wud beat them with a 4 start....u playd bad u lost, thats the way it goes.....as i sayd b4 its some1 elses turn 4 once.....im sure it wnt b long til u start winning again

mark "THE BEAR" mc d
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Posts: 65
Date Registered: 26/05/2007
Re: Pro and Challenge events 29th August
Date: September 04, 2009 05:44PM
nope u wnt be seeing me there paddy im wkn that weeknd....i have yet 2 receive a rack r give away a rack in the pro tour so i cant really comment on that but i do agree that the race is a bit short for a handicap but we havent got the time 2 go race to 10 r 12....so 9 is the best answer, and i know if u wer playn any plus 4 player u wud put ur huz on it u wud beat them with a 4 start....u playd bad u lost, thats the way it goes.....as i sayd b4 its some1 elses turn 4 once.....im sure it wnt b long til u start winning again

paddy number 1
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Posts: 566
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Pro and Challenge events 29th August
Date: September 04, 2009 06:01PM
explain how the system is slanted in my favour????

paddy number 1
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Posts: 566
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Pro and Challenge events 29th August
Date: September 04, 2009 06:03PM
3 tours

pro, challenge, and handicapped

would solve the debate!!!!

smiling smiley

gareth
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Posts: 414
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Pro and Challenge events 29th August
Date: September 04, 2009 08:46PM
Hey Paddy,

You wanted to know how its still slanted in your favour. Let me explain. You and I have played a race to nine a few times, and I've never made it past 5.sad smiley So by that reckoning my 'true' handicap against you should be +4thumbs up (instead of +2). IOW, you should still always beat me (on average). It's slanted in your favour.thumbs down

The same goes for most (if not all) the +4 players on the tour. Look at your winning margins against these guys in the past, and you will see their 'true' handicap should be higher than +4.

If you went over to play in a local handicap league in the states, you would quickly find yourself giving 5 racks to some players in a race to 6. Which is why our system still favours the top players, while giving weaker players more of a chance.

IMO, the problem with your own game at the moment is that the handicap system is somehow effecting you psychologically when you play. You are the only player at any of the events who constantly bemoans the idea throughout the whole event, so it must be getting inside you head.

My advice: Forget about the score, play one rack at a time, keep the head, and wipe the floor with your opponent. smoking smiley

gareth
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Posts: 414
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Pro and Challenge events 29th August
Date: September 09, 2009 07:16PM
Wow, I didn't realise my argument was so convincing that no-one could think of a retort. At this rate I might start believing it too. hot smiley

Does this mean that I can be a +4 in future? the finger smiley

paddy number 1
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Posts: 566
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Pro and Challenge events 29th August
Date: September 09, 2009 08:27PM
smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2009 08:38PM by paddy number 1.

willie
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Posts: 144
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Pro and Challenge events 29th August
Date: September 09, 2009 11:37PM
Gareth I know it's your site, but behave yourself smiling smiley lol tongue sticking out smiley

FWIW, it doesn't really matter so much about the the actual handicaps because in the end of the day, both players still need to play and win the racks to progress to the next round smiling smiley

I'd just rather see more players getting off their backsides and playing on the tour again to start bumping the numbers and the prize money up a bit more smiling smiley

Perhaps the tourney payouts need to be changed and updated, so that more players would have a chance of winning some bankroll for their efforts smiling smiley

Willie

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