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No shoes
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Posts: 21
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Numbers down on tournaments
Date: November 27, 2007 08:10AM
In recent months there seems to be a lack of interest in the tourns up and down the country, the most recent being Dublin where only 20 players turned up.(including two from Scotland,Jim Ohare and Ean Jones.Well done for making the trip guys)
The start of this year looked really good,I think there was forty odd players for a 9 ball event in Newry but since the all Ireland 9 ball in July the numbers have dropped badly.
So my point is, where do we go from here? How can we get peoples interest back and make it worthy to travel to compos...or are we flogging a dead horse?!
Is it money?....I know for a fact that one player I was talking to said he just didnt see the point in forking 25 quid out as he was never going to win an event...I can see his point too.
Is it just 9 ball??..would people rather play reds and yellows?
Maybe there just isnt enough American pool nerds in this country yet! prob 10 years down the line there might be who knows.
Anyway,ive made my point,(i think!)...peoples opinions are very welcome...and thats all it is too...an opinion.

feenor
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Posts: 11
Date Registered: 09/09/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: November 27, 2007 10:03AM
the problem is is that there are "too many tournaments" in the 8+9 ball tour which is a good thing for raising the standard with the top players to compete internationally but the average player will be questioning himself "is it really worth it"????????

Stephen
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Posts: 126
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: November 27, 2007 11:41AM
Ban Paddy from entering!! Only joking mate. My opinion for what it's worth is too many tournies perhaps, if between 50 and 60 people turn up at every event in Frames in Belfast that i've been to and before i started playing then have a 9ball event every 2 months or so at that venue and call that our tour, that's all we need i reckon, if we need 8ball (american) then have 3 or so tournies per year. I would still say the same if it were Dublin, Cork, L/derry, Galway or wherever had the venue with the 8 to 10 tables that we need to have top quality tournies, which it is when held in Frames. Keep posting with views!

Cheers

Stephen

AnonPlayer
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Posts: 1
Date Registered: 27/11/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: November 27, 2007 05:39PM
I don't believe the lack of interest is down to the number of tournaments. It's because there's not enough information circulating about upcoming tournaments. For example the first mention of the Dublin tournament last weekend on this forum was 2 days before the event. Apart from the entry in the event calendar, there were no details of a venue, a time to show up, information about the draw or the format whether round robin or straight knockout. We need to change from asking existing players to enter in the usual way to giving out more information about the tournaments well in advance. New players will have no idea about how to enter a tournament without this.

We should also look at other ways to spread information about the tour. I'm not sure if this has been tried before but asking pool/snooker club owners for permission to put up posters (for example the colour posters we had with details of the 2007 tour and photos) in their clubs would help increase awareness.

Cheers,
AnonPlayer

Fred Dinsmore
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Posts: 135
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: November 28, 2007 01:59PM
Very interesting views and I would actually agree with virtually all the above. My opinion for what its worth is that it is natural for entry to fluctuate to a degree as the sport is still in the early stages of development in Ireland (particularly compared with Reds and Yellows and obviously Snooker) there would be a "curiosity factor" with some players playing in events say in Cork or Dublin and then maybe not playing again, so maybe more effort needs to be made for Ronnie or the other top players to stay in touch with new players when they come. I dont think just concentratiing on Northern Ireland for short term better entry is a good idea as the game will never grow that way. But more posters etc in clubs will certainly help spread the word

I think the venue point is an important one, the Reds and Yellows are played in consistent conditions on consistent tables and in Hotels in general I think? I know Ronnie was trying to get this done last year, it may be worth Re-visiting this idea as this will ultimatlely increas the standard of play.

Also on the "ban Paddy", I think this is a great idea that would solve a lot of entry problems!!! (Sorry Paddy). No seriously Wheelchair Cue Sports in Ireland has the same problems, it is completely natural when one Player is out on his own as Paddy seems to be (sorry everybody) that some lesser players should say Why should I bother,Im afraid that is out of everybodys control, some will unfortunately not rise to the challenge of working harder and trying to catch the best players. Maybe a "b" division might be an idea to promote players where say the top 8 are excluded? And then may indirectly increase entry in the main events in time.

Now for maybe the controversial one, I have full of praise for Ronnie I dont think your section would have got to this stage without his hard work but I dont think the different levels of events is a good idea, it was worth a try but why would players play in lower catagory events when they can do a lot less work for probably the same or more rewards, points wise, at just Premier Events I think maybe less events than now all for equal rewards except for maybe the National Championships may be the way to go.

Hope some of these comments may be of some help.

Regards

Fred

Stephen
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Posts: 126
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: November 29, 2007 09:03AM
Good points Fred although you'll see in my post that i'm not trying to have every event in Northern Ireland, i'm simply stating that if we can get over 50 entrants at every event in Frames then maybe 4 top events should be there, grand slam, majors, call them whatever, it is a proven venue and players do come across the water to play and that's fact, I would say the same for any venue that has equal facilities.
I see this subject has over 100 views with only 5 posts! (and 1 post from anon, don't see the point, say who you are with your view, we're not doing anything illegal as far as i know), I would have expected more posts from the pool fraternity.

Cheers

Stephen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29/11/2007 04:27PM by Stephen.

paddy number 1
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Posts: 566
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: November 29, 2007 09:54AM
totally agree with ya stephen!!! 100 odd views and a handful of posts!!!! speak up players???? I think posting anon is pointless.....

I remember the time everyone was posting on this forum(A Long Time Ago) now it seems like just the people who actually care about the game of American Pool In Ireland post now....




Im just trying to work out in my head how Scotland can get 83 runners recently, Northern Ireland snooker get nearly 100 and we get 20 odd....

Northern Ireland snooker offers a pro tour place every year so thats maybe why they are getting so many players as well....




FACT..... we will never get the same numbers because american pool is behind snooker and 8ball pool in terms of popularity within Ireland.

Its just obvious to me that the red and yellows players (in Ireland) wont play 9ball and are firmly sticking to the smaller table and i dont see that changing while im still playing the game....

In regards to having tournaments running alongside 8ball events at hotels- this could possibly work but who knows.




The Irish Tour has been running a few years now and at the start of the season i was pretty hopeful of 60-70 players at each event but at the minute 40 would be great.

I personally enjoyed this season and all the tournaments. . . If there was one thing i would change it would be date clashing. . . with 8ball events, snooker events and eurotour events..... I believe this could raise the numbers more so with the snooker players not having a tournament that day.

p.s banning me wouldnt be the way forward lol!!!!!

also i dont think having a massive reducement in tournaments wont help either.......

what annoys me is the structure of pool outside Ireland???? Top players in every country in the world should get to the World Championship(top 2-4) There needs a more solid structure put into place so players know what finishing high in there countries national rankings gets them.......

JUST A THOUGHT!!!! maybe ask the players to write down what they want out of the new season as they may not have net access and we could read through them as well and see what they have to say.

Well Thats About It From Me

looking forward to more posts

Paddy Mc Loughlin

paddy number 1
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Posts: 566
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: November 29, 2007 10:06AM
If the tournaments are moved to hotels we need someone to put up the tables(not an easy task) cost etc?????

Im sure simonis would come up with the cloth for the events and maybe a wee push in the right direction to Guinness they might come through with some sponsorship like they do for the Asian 9ball Tour....

just a thought.

paddy

feenor
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Posts: 11
Date Registered: 09/09/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: November 29, 2007 02:57PM
apologies some of you may not know me my name is darren feehan and i am from dublin i play blackball (reds and yellows) you can see it on the world pool association site not world rules and im into the 9 ball scene i am going to give the 9 ball a go this season purely out of interest and hopeful growth because i would like to see an irish player to be given a spot in the world championship and i think the setup and organisation is quality with the 9 ball on irelands tour



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29/11/2007 02:59PM by feenor.

Stephen
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Posts: 126
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: November 29, 2007 04:26PM
Good man Darren great to have your views here, yes Ronnie does a great job with the tour, if enough people bang heads together, brainstorm, whatever it is called, then it can only help with our game!

Cheers

Stephen

gareth
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Posts: 414
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: November 30, 2007 10:56AM
This might be slightly 'off topic'. Just want to say that I want to get the forum buzzing again, and any lurkers out there that want to post anything or ask a question, please do. Anyone can register, and it costs nothing . All are welcome and its a friendly forum. So please post.

In keeping with that, I don't see any reason why people need to post anonymously. I think its better that if you do have honest opinions, then you shouldn't have a problem standing by them, and adding weight to them.

Gareth Deegan
Irish9Ball.com

JoeytheSnake
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Posts: 127
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: December 03, 2007 03:42PM
Hi All

Some very good points and it's good to see a debate about these issues.

For what it's worth my two cents are:

Fredís point about the disparity in rewards for events is a good one. When I started playing on the tour I had no real ambitions to win a tournament but the idea of getting ranking points and seeing my name climb the rankings was reward enough. Iím sure there are others out there who are or were in the same boat. This year I played in Cork at one of the 9Ball events and was lucky enough to get to the semi finals. For this I got 30 ranking points. The following week Eoin, my brother who many of you know, played in Dublin at the Leinster Open. He got a bye in the first round as his opponent didnít turn up. He then lost his Last-16 match. He got 30 points for this also. I couldnít attend this event due to work commitments. So one week I win my group, manage to beat a good player in the quarter finals and get to the semis. The next week he turns up and gets the same amount of points as I did the previous week, just for showing up! Obviously Iím not having a go at him, we both found it funny but to be honest it was a little annoying!

I must say this is not a swipe in any way at Ronnie who is a legend of the game in Ireland and fair play to him for trying new things and being innovative. I just agree with Fred that all events, with the possible exception of the National Championships should have equal reward, or there is a lack of incentive for Ď2nd tierí players to attend the less rewarded tournaments.

My second point, and someone mentioned something similar above with the idea of a B Division, would be to host a Ďplateí competition at every event for all those players not getting to the last 8. It could be open draw, short races, and those who wish to take part maybe throw in a tenner each. Winner and runner-up get paid and maybe get a few extra ranking points on top of any they picked up in the Ďmainí event. It could give people more incentive to travel, knowing that if they meet a better player early on in the tournament they still have a chance to play a few matches and hopefully get something for their trouble! Obviously this would take more organization and itís unfair to burden Ronnie, so how about Ronnie (or whoever is running the main event) just takes entries and then the top-ranked local player who wants to play looks after the plate compÖ? We'd all like to see the game growing so we should be willing to put a few hours time in.

Right, it's gone 5.30 so that's the end of my novel!!

Hopefully see some of you in Newry on Saturday.

Joey

p. strawbridge
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Posts: 63
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: December 04, 2007 04:35PM
i personally dont think putting tables into hotels for tournaments is the way forward.think of the expense, time and logistics of this, which would obviously have to come from the players.There must be plenty of venues that have the potential to host tournaments.
i totally agree with stephens point about frames, it always seems to get a good turnout for tournaments, but then again it just proves that a lot of people arent prepared to travel too far.i myself being guilty of this also, i mean cork is a very long distance to travel from derry...but i suppose players like leslie walsh travel from wexford (i think ) to play in tournaments up here.
There just seems to be more interest in the reds and yellows game.even here a lot of snooker players say pool is too easy, but they arent prepared to play in competitions to see that isnt quite so.The north west has snooker leagues running for years, as does lots of places im sure.The numbers have dwindled over the years granted, but im sure the fact that they take a 2 month break after the seasons over before starting it again leaves people hungry to compete again.
maybe if there was a little break after the "pool season" it might help......im sure if you were to look at the calender of events there would be Practically a competition every week you could turn up for.......and realistically people have to decide which events they want to attend , as some obviously mean overnight stays.............................

Fred Dinsmore
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Posts: 135
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: December 04, 2007 05:13PM
Hi Paul

Since I started meeting and talking to people in the Irish Tour and since Gar started the site (through) the Forum it has been virtually a constant complaint that events are being played at venues and on tables that "arent very good" the only way that I can think of is to play them in hotel's on proper tables and proper conditions, this will I am certain ultimately increase the standard and entry levels, increasing the standard is crucial if Ireland has any real thoughts of continuing to have people playing in the European Championships and other major events, it is simply too much of a change to expect players to change from conditions as they are now and then expect to be able to be even some way competitive in the big events.

You of course are correct in the extra cost but one of Ronnies real talents seems to be the ability to generate sponsorship and the events will be much more professional then and this can only be more attractive to potential sponsors. I believe the time has come to choose between Ireland (Able Bodied and Wheelchair)being mediocre or professional and I think I know what should be chosen?

Regards

Fred

No shoes
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Posts: 21
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: December 06, 2007 07:49AM
Ok, hotels. I think most will agree that at LEAST eight tables would be the min req for a hotel to host a tourn.(based on a 64 man turnout) How much would eight tables cost..mmmmmm..a LOT of money. Also, where would the hotels be situated?..north? south?,both?
Another thing, who would set up these tables ,level, recloth etc cos i think none of the guys playing on the tour are table mechanics, so...more money!

With regards to Fred's point above about tour sponsors, I mean really,why on earth would a business/company want to sponsor a tour which is virtually underground. What i mean is to even find this tour exists you have to delve deep into the internet. The average man on the street hasnt a clue what 9 ball is(9 ball being the forerunner game on the tour).
I think the game needs coverage, be it newspapers or whatever to draw the players out let them know about the tour ,THEN venues can be worked upon when we know certain numbers are guaranteed to turn up, cos at the moment, the word of mouth thing just isnt working.

just more thoughts.....

gary...

Raymie
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Posts: 2
Date Registered: 27/11/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: December 06, 2007 11:31AM
Rite, this a great debate at the moment and its good to see, its even got me to sign up and join in. A few of you may not agree with hosting the tournaments in hotels but think about it. You could run the 8ball(reds and yellows) along side the 9ball because if they dont want to come to us, we should bring it to them because if its right in front of them how can they not play. After all i only played snooker and 8ball (reds and yellows) at the start and to the honest hated 9ball when it was introduced to me but after a while the game started to grow on me and really enjoy playing the game now.

I no this is easier said than done but in my opinion (and after all its only an opinion) its the only way forward. I also agree with paul on the whole having a break in the year (pool season because cue sports are traditional a winter sport) because it gives you the chance to the get the hunger back for the game than if you played the whole year through.

Thats my say on things,
hope to see some of you in TJs on saturday.

Raymond......

p. strawbridge
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Posts: 63
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: December 06, 2007 02:28PM
Fred i agree with the IDEA of bringing tables into hotels for tournaments, but the REALITY is that its going to be very expensive. I also agree with you saying that the playing conditions have to improve before the players can improve as well...i think that goes without saying.
BUT the UK tour doesnt need to bring tables into hotels and they have a world champion (i think youre a double pool-world champion fred.correct me if im wrong...and a world champion at snooker too) and karl boyes got a bronze medal too at the worlds as everyone already knows.
what they do have is a BIG RILEYS CHAIN, and sadly we dont have that luxury on this wee island

paddy number 1
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Posts: 566
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: December 06, 2007 03:33PM
yeah very true paul...... they also have sponsorship from simonis and any tables that need reclothed are done before the tournament starts so the conditions are pretty good at all the events......

As for the break that has been mentioned, here is the break in eurotour events for 2008

21st-25th february Eurotour Liberec

11th-15th April Eurotour Naples

2nd-6th May Eurotour Germany

13th-17th June Eurotour Austria

12th-16th September Eurotour Weert

24th-27th October Eurotour Switzerland

5th-9th December Eurotour Spain

there is a good break from june to september and it would be nice to have something similar on the irish tour.......

Just a thought........

Paddy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2007 03:34PM by paddy number 1.

paddy number 1
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Posts: 566
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: December 06, 2007 08:02PM
any thought????

No shoes
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Posts: 21
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Numbers down on tournaments
Date: December 07, 2007 11:57AM
I see this "having a break" debate coming back and bitin' us!
Any of these eurotour players in between the months of jun to sep will be playing OTHER tourns somewhere, be it in England etc.
If we take a look at our 2007 diary, we will see a break in the 9ball events...
2 june until 28 july.
Now, thats nearly two months of "a break" if you only play 9 ball, which clearly some people only do. So that leaves plenty time to go holiday etc etc, or have a moan that there isnt another 9 ball event for 2 months...hehe, we're never happy are we?!

Seriously tho,If we're all honest we only turn up to an 8 ball event just to swing a cue at some balls, dont we??
Me personally, if i miss a 9 ball tourn, i'm a bit gutted, i want to try and get to EVERY one!

Anyone else feel this way?

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