paddy number 1
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Date Registered: 20/03/2007
racking
Date: July 31, 2006 04:57PM
is there a set rule for racking in the tour??? rack your own or opponents???

will there be a change in the golden break rule when the 9 goes straight in??? rerack or 9ball back on spot???

Willie
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Re: racking
Date: August 01, 2006 02:05AM
It's a good thing to ask paddy because I too was wondering about that situation if it were on the tour or any other event here^_^

I think that it would be good that another player that is in no way linked to a match, should given the task to rack the balls for both players in a match and the breaking player and keep having the rack adjusted untill he is happy that they are all frozen or as close to frozen as possible^_^

I do know that if the 9 occasionally goes straight in, even when the rack is frozen, but in about 80% of racks where the 9 goes straight in, there is a gap between the wing ball to the side where the 9 went and the ball behind that^_^

As far as I'm aware though, generally everyone racks their own breaks, but it's up to the opponent to check that the rack is frozen or as close to frozen as possible^_^

If the 9 goes striaght in the side pocket, then that's not by a bad rack, it's just went in like that because it has got kicked by another ball, but immediately after the rack has started to open up^_^

It is definitely an interesting and good Q, Paddy because there's alot of discussion about it on pro9 and there's many different views on it there too and it would be good to hear of everyone's views on it here too^_^

Willie

paddy number 1
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Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: racking
Date: August 01, 2006 03:06AM
theres definitely people that know how to rack to make the 9ball go near the corner pocket!!! sure theres a dvd on it!!!!

Willie
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Re: racking
Date: August 01, 2006 03:45AM
That doesn't suprise me, but if that's the case, then a someone completely neutral to a match, to both the players themselves and the match result, that way it'll help reduce the risk of guys deliberately racking to set the 9 up in any way because there won't be any reason for them to do so^_^

What do you think Paddy?^_^

paddy number 1
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Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: racking
Date: August 01, 2006 04:30AM
i dont know what would be the best answer but there has to be a new ruling on it!!!!!

cjh
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Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: racking
Date: August 01, 2006 07:52AM
I think players being allowed to call for a neutral racker makes sense; particularly in the later rounds, having a ref who could call hits, rack etc. would be good.



"Here are just a few of the key ingredients: dynamite, pole vaulting, laughing gas, choppers - can you see how incredible this is going to be? - hang gliding, come on!"

Gareth
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Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: racking
Date: August 01, 2006 07:56AM
Let me start by saying there seems to be a lot of ignorance about 9-ball racking.

Paddy, the DVD you might be referring to is Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets. Its more concerned with understanding the rack and 'reading' the rack, than setting the balls up in any particular way.

It is virtually impossible to rack the balls to 'guarantee' making the 9 ball. Certainly impossible to do it without the whole room noticing. Why would someone try, when the higher percentage approach is to make the wing ball and run out? Anyone purposely racking to make the 9, will loose more racks than he'll win. In Ireland, if you see a 9-ball go straight in (not kicked) itís certainly a sign of a bad/sloppy rack. It isn't the sign of someone cheating. That said, some 'rack your own' events overseas will re-spot the nine if it goes straight in off the break.

But I think you are missing the point. Which is, its very easy to rack the balls to guarantee making the wing ball in the corner. All you have to do is make sure ALL the balls are touching, break from the side and hit the one-ball full. In other words, if you rack the balls 'correctly' as it says in the rules, you should make the wing ball. You'd be amazed at how many players donít know that, who think its pure luck and give themselves, and others, slug racks.

There are more and more guys who rack well on the tour (I think the influence of the seeing the European Championships has helped). But there are still a lot who donít. Therefore I prefer to rack my own, cos otherwise I'd spend half the day asking guys to make sure there are no gaps, the other half of the day explaining why, and eventually they'll get annoyed and 'tell' me to rack my own anyway. I've no problem any player challenging my rack either.

The Rack in 9-ball is a major issue in the game. Its one reason why some American tours have gone to 10-ball. Other tournaments 'tap' the balls (which ruins the spectacle of monster breaks), and some events restrict players to the 'break box'. 'Rack your own' with alternate-break is another method used. All pretty unsatisfactory in my book.

Willie, I doubt you'll get players volunteering in between matches to be 'rack boys'. And I really doubt they will all rack em tight. Thankfully we haven't gone down the route of players rejecting racks on the Irish tour, but your solution wont make that any less likely.

Paddy, you said "theres definitely people that know how to rack to make the 9ball go near the corner pocket!!!". Do you mean on the irish tour? If so, send me an email with the names, cos you are obviously seeing something I'm not. Sounds to me like someone lost a few racks to golden breaks. Maybe you should examine the rack before you or your opponent breaks, and learn how to read racks from Joe Tucker.

I personally donít see a need for a rule change, as much as players getting clued in on the importance of racking and how to rack properly.



Gareth Deegan
Irish9Ball.com

Willie
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Re: racking
Date: August 01, 2006 10:30AM
Hi Gareth^_^, How are you buddy?smiling smiley

I know what you mean, but I don't mean as in ta neutral player/official just racking, but actually refereeing a match, but saying that you have a good point on the note of the fact that the likelyhood of getting a tight rack and the chances of getting guys to be willing to put the extra bit of effort into the tour, because it is suprising what you can learn, just from watching a match, but you can learn the same amount, if not more from refereeing^_^

On the Racking Secrets DVD, that's the DVD that I thought that Paddy was talking about as I had heard of it before, but never really took any notice of it^_^

I can say that I believe that this Questioned was discussed because the same Q is being asked and discussed on pro9.co.uk at the moment and I think that it is an interesting one to hear of the different views from different players, but other than the shot clock, I like 9ball the way it is, but definitely I agree with a shot clock^_^

Willie

p. strawbridge
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Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: racking
Date: August 03, 2006 04:09AM
why not employ the rule that was used on the irish reds-yellow tour a few years back...loser of the previous match referees and racks the next match on that table.....
that way both players can check each individual rack if they want..if they dont like it they can rack theyre own

Willie
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Re: racking
Date: August 03, 2006 07:45AM
You might have something there Paul^_^, but you would need to have it, that the players from the previous match are in no way linked to their previous match, especially if they were to rack and ref a match against the guy who just beat them, I don't mean this in any disreaguard to any players, but it would only seem right to make as fair and random as possible, but it's actually a pretty good idea, I'm sure I've heard of that being done somewhere else before, but I can't remember where^_^

Nice one Paul^_^

Willie

Chris the master cyclone
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Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: racking
Date: August 03, 2006 11:57AM
pffft i wish the rule for respotting the nine was playable, then at least i9 would have had a chance in the last rack. Thats right, it was 9-9 at the All Irelands and the fella got the nine off the break, terrible way to go out.



Im the Harry Potter.....Im magic!

Willie
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Re: racking
Date: August 04, 2006 02:25AM
Hold on here smokey!!!... before you go burning your bacon in the pan from losing to a golden break, you gotta accept that they are a part of 9ball, but it doesn't mean that you gotta like it.^_^

This discussion is mostly about racking in general, where the 9 has went straight in on a bad rack, instead of getting kicked in on a good or solid rack^__^

I have lost matches before to a golden break, but it never bothered me because if it were the other way around and I won by a golden break, I'd consider myself a lucky sod, to win that way, but it's just something that happens and it's something that you gotta put behind you and keep playing in the next even or whatever^_^

Willie

Chris the master cyclone
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Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: racking
Date: August 07, 2006 09:14AM
yeah but it was a bad rack as the nine went straight in but doesnt matter now, its over and done with.



Im the Harry Potter.....Im magic!

Willie
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Re: racking
Date: August 07, 2006 12:05PM
Well, that's true, it is over and done with, but maybe if players checked the rack before they break, then they would be able to make sure that they get as good and fair a rack as possible, but it's up to the players to check and untill the day that referees are available, then it's better to check it yourself and if you're not happy, then keep trying till they rack good.

Willie



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