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joeclub9matthews
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Posts: 73
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Radio coverage
Date: August 02, 2005 07:56AM
Hi players as I have mentioned I write a full page article every Thurs in the second biggest paper in Belfast to promote our sport . When we opened club9 we paid £1400 + vat,so it shows you what it's worth. Now it's free for us. Well I just got a call from a radio station to go on this evening to talk about the sport and I will be mentioning the time and effort that goes on behind the scene like this forum and the tour. There are people out there like players and Gareth and others who truly love the game and put alot of unpaid hours of work to make all this happen. Mostly the players who keep the game alive and kicking.
Also yesterday we were talking to Alex Pagulayan and Luc Salvas our friends from Canada and a player from the states and are trying to tie in a stop off at club 9 and they can't wait , so it's a matter of when they will be in Europe next. We will keep you informed.
This is the beginning of something exciting for pool as we are recognized as a sport by the sports forum of Belfast. If im right Gareth told me that the sports forum in the south does not give us recognition as a sport but we hope to change all that in the future.
Sincerely Joe

SHOOT POOL, NOT PEOPLE!!

Fred Dinsmore
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Posts: 135
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 02, 2005 09:37AM
No, that is right Joe the Irish Sports Council are only interested in "Olympic and Paralympic events". It seems to have escaped Mr Treacy's attention that Ireland cannot compete at these events in any great way (with a couple of excellent notable exceptions) and he has been responsible for a disgraceful waste of tax payers money through the "Elite Carding Scheme" which has not been very successful in terms of medals in these events (I note the Olympics last year, and I would put on my Nostradamus hat on and predict an equally poor display at the forthcoming World Athletics Championships).

Other Sports (like Cue Sports) have people who can achieve things at International Level and are being ignored, (I am sorry everybody if this sounds big headed) but I think it is past the time that Mr Treacy should do the honourable thing and resign his position and make way for somebody who can see past Athletics, to Sports where Ireland CAN be successful because Ireland is not in a position where we can "pick" where our medals come from and for them to promote a pretty new sport like 9 ball would be the way to go to make sure we can be successful in the future. Sadly the person in charge of the Irish Sports Council at this time does not seem to have the foresight to see this.

Fred

Gareth
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Posts: 414
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 02, 2005 10:09AM
To those that don't already know, Fred is a former World and European Champion and is currently European Number 1.



Gareth Deegan
Irish9Ball.com

joeclub9matthews
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Posts: 73
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 03, 2005 08:46AM
Hi fred I am going to send this mr treacey a package on our sport and in a nice way ask him to wake up smell the cofee and recognize what the rest of the civilized world knows, that American pool is the fastest growing sport world wide and i will tell him about the sports council up here and in Canada. In the future it will be in the Olympics im sure. I remember about 12 years ago in Canada the pool association was pushing to get amateur pool in the olympics and take out speed walking as it isn't marketable as were pool meets all criteria. And by the way ( this is for Gareth) Sam only recently told me that you were World Champion wich i did not know,sorry,
but I knew you were European Champion and # 1 CONGRATS BIG TIME.
And by the way I appologise that our club isn't accessible but soon we hope to change that but unfortunately at the min it's a financial problem.
Once again I truly appologise
Sincerely Joe

Fred Dinsmore
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Posts: 135
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 03, 2005 10:55AM
Thanks Joe

Fred

Mr Magee
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Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 04, 2005 12:39AM
Fred,

I share your frustrations in relation to the non-recognition of pool by the Irish Sports Council (ISC). Just to let you know - the Irish Pool Association (8-ball Assoc) has worked very hard in recent years making the case to the Irish Sports Council for recognition of pool. Unfortunately there has been no success, despite the fact that we were able to point to a very well organised game in this country, and one that was competitive on both a European and World level.

The Irish Sports Council was founded under the Sports Council Act 1999, which, in my opinion, uses a very narrow definition of sport. This definition basically defines sport purely as an activity that ‘improves physical fitness’, and hence they argued that the case for pool was not a sound one. We tried the argument that there are a range of sports currently recognised by the ISC that would not appear to meet this criterion, but they were able to argue that these were games that had received recognition prior to the Sports Council Act.

All very frustrating, but to be fair to John Treacy, I would argue that he is hamstrung by the legislation. Having said that, this does not mean that I don’t feel that there is a very real bias out there in relation to cue sports in general, with many people forming an ignorant and unfair perception as to the merits of our games. I completely agree with you that a small country like Ireland should be celebrating in a real way the achievements of our cue sports players. However, we suffer from the same fate as lots of other so-called ‘minority’ sports, in that because we don’t reach a critical mass, we’re deemed to be somehow irrelevant.

Devil
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Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 04, 2005 04:01AM
Have you told the Irish Sports Council that pool through the World Pool Association (WPA) is recognised by the IOC as the governing body for pool and the World Confederation for Billiard Sports also recognise this game and this is why it's included at the World Games.

If they dont wake up and smell the coffee then the other nations around the globe will go forward much faster and win more medals at these games unless the Sports Council's in the UK act fast and give us recognition.

Did you also know that the Dutch Government sponsor about 5 players to play 9 ball full-time and bring recognition for the sport back home?

Singapore do the same also and I bet a good few other countries do to.

It's the attitude of the British and Irish Sports Council's who keep trying to win medals at gymnastics and athletics when they are clearly lagging behind even though they plough millions into training them.....it makes me sick.

Mr Magee
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Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 04, 2005 04:04AM
Pat,

The attitude of the Sports Councils is frustrating indeed, but in our case they are restricted by legislation. Although that is not to say that they would recognise it were the legislation different.

I know that in Holland the top players currently get a stipend of €600 a month through the Sports body, as well as the use of a car!! Not bad.

joeclub9matthews
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Posts: 73
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 04, 2005 07:23AM
This weekend for the first time , the sports council up here have asked club9 to supply a table and players to promote "minority sports" at the launch of the new sports council in belfast which I was asked to be on the committee but don't have the time so I put forth my father forth and it looks like he might be chairing the committee its a big step in the right direction so I will definetly be checking into all this and now we have one council on board it might help us to get the rest of the GOATS involved so fred I will keep in touch with you on this and I will be with the sports forum on Sat at the launch and hopefully we can get some answers and yes it is extreemly frustrating but we must not stop pushing this fact.
talk to you soon
By the way this is a great story for a full page article and I will be using all points raised by Pat, Mr Magee and yourself so lets see what we can do or who we can get to listen.And no offence but this country is way behind in many ways but improving.
Sincerely Joe



joeclub9matthews
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Posts: 73
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 04, 2005 07:31AM
By the way fred would you be interested in writing a story on the subject at hand and maybe we could use this as part of our campaign to get these oeople to listen and I will put it in the news papers.After all the pen is , well you know the rest. And we could use this media coverage to get heard or die trying
Sincerely Joe

devil
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Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 04, 2005 10:19AM
Q) What does the Sports Council Act 1999 do for disabled people who cant exercise but can play pool like Fred?

Is this not discrimination?

Not to offend you Fred as I dont know your situation but it is a little strange when the other UK sports councils recognise 8 ball pool ??

Surely they are all batting under the same rules??

The sooner they wake up and smell the coffee the better for pool in general.

Good to hear that Joe and others are pushing and fighting the corner on this issue and not just rolling over and giving in.

ronnie
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Posts: 203
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 04, 2005 11:27AM

Well said Pat, your right in what your saying, they did the same with darts and they have now have accepted darts as a sport.

I know the IPA have tried very hard on this matter and was turned down, but i think 8ball in N. Ireland is reganised by the sports council.

We have someone looking into this matter, as Ireland's American 8 & 9 Tour is reganised as the govering boby for 9ball pool in Ireland.


With players representing Ireland at international team events in Mens, Ladies and Wheelchair and with the Juniors being set-up, i think the players should be offered some money towards there exspenes while representing there Country in these Major events.


Our tour is reganised by the EBPF in these major competitions, and the work is being set-up to introduce Girls & Boys to these international competitions, and its not fair to ask the players all the time to pay there own exspences while representing there Country at these major events.

joeclub9matthews
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Posts: 73
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 04, 2005 12:37PM
Hi Ronnie who is the person looking into it for us as I am involved with the forum they might know him and maybe it could make my job easier as any info would help our campaign .













SHOOT POOL, NOT PEOPLE!

ronnie
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Posts: 203
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 04, 2005 12:53PM

Joe,

We have already received the forms from the sports council to get filled inn, and things are on the move for us to make our request, and hopefully we will get some response before sending teams to the 2006 European Pool Championships in Rome.

On the matter of teams, it looks 90% we will be sending a Ladies team for the first time to these 2006 European Championships, and a Junior team later on the year all to represent Ireland, so thats what why i would like us to be reganised for funding to help all these players out competing in these major international events.

Ronnie

joeclub9matthews
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Posts: 73
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 04, 2005 02:00PM
Great news Ronnie and I hope they come through but if not this time then with persistence eventually they will

Fred Dinsmore
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Posts: 135
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 05, 2005 12:41PM
Hi "Devil"

Well I will try and answer your question and give the history if you dont mind being bored!! The fact is we in cue sports receive no direct individual funding, (IWA in general is funded though), now under the "Carding Scheme" the ISC said they will only fund Paralympic events, although non Olympic events are funded, yes this strikes me as blatant discrimination, but I heard unofficially that after the review of the carding scheme only Olympic events will be considerd but I am not sure if that is the case (I refer to my prevoius thought about lack of success in these events).

I will give you the story so far sorry if its long and boring everybody.

The thing that makes me absolutely furious though is the ISC keep moving the goal posts on us, at the start we were told that Snooker was dead and no chance of getting funding, we had started playing Pool at this stage and it was clear to see the Sports and our potential but this was ignored. We were told then that there was no international competitions taking place, this was resolved. Then we were told that there was no ranking list, the EWT started and I finished 4th in Europe in first year (not a bad start) I am number 1 now. This was not enough we were then told there was no World and European Championships, this also changed I won the World Championships and later the European Championships and finished in Medals of Europeans every year except one I think. When I won the World I asked to be put forward under the "Special case" rule (ISC own rules) at that time anyway, as I dont feel there is anything more "Special" than being World Champion?? This was refused straight away for the sport not meeting the set criteria. I wrote to Mr Treacy asking for an explanation he replied Cue Sports was never sought for inclusion by our NGB (or words to that effect), completely incorrect. After achieving all this we are now told basically the only way Cue Sports will be included is to achieve Paralympic status, I feel our sport has been messed around by the Irish Sports Councel from the start.

I should also point out I am not the only successful Irish Player, Michael White (now Irish Coach) was a World Champion Snooker Player and reasonably successful Pool player considering it started towards the latter stage of his time as a player, Tom Hynes has vastly improved and is now close to being able to challenge for International medals consistently, so Ireland is a very successful Wheelchair Cues Sports Country it is not just me!!!!

Fred

(sorry this is so long but I feel it is best to give the history to my previous post since it got a reaction)

John M Kane
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Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 07, 2005 02:47AM
interesting thread guys.

good for u fred, i never knew ireland had a world pool champion. keep fighting the fight. and thanks too to ronnie and joe in their fight for pool to be funded.

is the ipa linked with the 9ball tour? just a thought but would maybe it would be better if an umbrella group was created to represent all cuesports including snooker and approach the sports councils as one. i’d imagine the number of participants for all cuesports in ireland is huge.

ronnie, are those forms u got, r they for the northern ireland sports council or the irish sports council? does anyone have any opinion on which one is best to approach?

john

joeclub9matthews
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Posts: 73
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 07, 2005 05:45AM
Hi John, Joe here yesterday was a small step for club 9 but more importantly a giant step for American pool as we helped launch the new West Belfast sports forum on which I am involved with and this is our way to get the other forums to give us recognition. This week I am meeting with Belfast city council and next Tuesday we are meeting with the N I Sports council again but this time with the fact that we represented American cue sports as part of the Belfast Festival in conjunction with the Forum and 02 being our corporate sponsor might also help. So at present we are very close to getting a little bit of sponsorship but even if they give us 1 tshirt that means that people like Gareth, fred ,yourselfe and others inc the tour can use this as point in principal to say it's being recognized in Belfast so why not other places!
One of the ways we are going about this is to use our experiences from home( Canada) and nicely saying "catch up"
I would like to talk to you guys after we see what Belfast City and the others say,I should have some answers in a couple of weeks and as soon as i do I will inform who ever is interested and we could do something on a bigger scale but untill we lock something down with oneof these groups it won't happen and thats basically why we are using the media coverage ( radio for hour & half) & full page article worth over £1400 + vat every Thursday ( FREE) and I will be doing a full Article on Fred, Gareth and the tour . If there is anything you think I should write about like lack of funding for us etc please let me know as I want to use this media coverage to help pool as a whole.And even if you or anyone for that matter would like to write an article then send it to me and I can publish it in the Andersons Town News, this paper hit 90,000 readers weekly and I have built up a portfolio to take to these people(forums)

Im glad to see interest here so I will get in touch as soon as I can and hopefully we can get something started. I have been working on this issue steady for 6 months and if we can work together then it would be better for us all in the long run

Today in the club we are hosting as part of the week long festival a Multicultural 9ball tournament and there are 14 filipino players as well as others playing so this is hopefully going to help the councils see our sport in a different light. The winners Get a Cup ( huge) two camera phones and
other prizes all free ( non profit) free pool and food. We decided to give the room up for the day to help our quest and promote our sport.

Sorry for such a long one but there is a lot to sort out and like you said john we could get together on this and brainstorM

Sincerely Joe

Gareth
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Posts: 414
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 07, 2005 07:27AM
In 2003, the Irish Sports Council gave funding to the following sports. Its interesting that some of them do not promote physical fitness in anyway more than Pool, like Archery, Lawn Bowling, Tenpin Bolwing, Clay Pigeon Shooting, Fishing, Motor Sport, Motor Cycling, Sailing, Snooker and of course Horseshoe Pitching. One of them I’m not sure is even a competitive sport (Caving and Exploration Of Caves/ Potholing). I'm not putting down any sport, they all have their merits, I'm just highlighting how Pool would compliment the sports already being funded by the ISC. By the way, this isn't the full list, for that check their website [www.irishsportscouncil.ie]

Its also arguable if some of the better funded sports are really in need of state funding (e.g. €500k for Golf)

€3,000 Horseshoe Pitching
€5,525 Baton Twirling
€6,600 Baseball & Softball
€12,027 Clay Pigeon Shooting
€14,151 Archery
€14,990 Caving and Exploration Of Caves/ Potholing
€15,271 Tenpin Bowling
€20,000 Fishing
€22,791 Olympic Handball
€22,815 National Rifle and Pistol Association
€28,036 Bowling
€42,910 Surfing
€50,917 Snooker
€74,985 Motor Cycling
€90,639 Pitch and Putt
€119,000 Motor Sport
€119,625 Ladies Golf
€141,540 Volleyball
€244,988 Canoeing
€245,700 Rowing
€280,167 Badminton
€304,100 Sailing
€318,700 Golf
€374,573 Basketball
€455,858 Tennis
€467,520 Equestrianism
€600,800 Athletics



Gareth Deegan
Irish9Ball.com

Fred Dinsmore
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Posts: 135
Date Registered: 20/03/2007
Re: Radio coverage
Date: August 07, 2005 09:24AM
Well done Joe

Thanks Gareth, I think I rest my case everybody!!! it also makes very interesting reading to see the amounts of money given in individual grants in these sports I think the amounts here are to NGB of specific "sports", you can correct me if I am wrong Gareth I am not sure of this. I should use the word sports in inverted comma's!!!

Fred

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